Aranock Online

I think an easy fix which will make everyone happy is that when someone solves, EVERYONE gets the solve exp. Just base the exp on highest pent touched for those who didn't actually solve.

While it is a good suggestion Botar, you'd have to reduce the amount per pent by quite a bit to make it even remotely fair. Nominally I can grab about 3 times as many pents as say a templar, while that change would be good for me, especially with no change to the amounts involved, the templar would not see an increase.

I'm still for removing the exp bonus but increasing the amount per pent as suggested by Lazy.

Rizpah wrote:While it is a good suggestion Botar, you'd have to reduce the amount per pent by quite a bit to make it even remotely fair. Nominally I can grab about 3 times as many pents as say a templar, while that change would be good for me, especially with no change to the amounts involved, the templar would not see an increase.

I'm still for removing the exp bonus but increasing the amount per pent as suggested by Lazy.

I don't think whether or not it's going to help templars should be a consideration, I don't think that there's any pent change that is going to benefit templars in their current situation and fixing them is an entirely different concern.

I also don't think reducing the experience per pent because some people are able to get so many of them is really a good idea either, you should be rewarded for being speedy and not punished for it.

The only downside to my idea, as I see it, is that it would make experience gain higher in general but with rebirth out now I don't see people ranking up faster as a bad thing.

I would also argue against giving everyone the bonus, because then it isn't a bonus anymore. I would also argue against removing the bonus, just for the simple reason that solving and getting a bonus adds a little bit of fun in my opinion. The problem with the bonus currently is that it's responsible for too large of a portion of the experience gained from penting. If you lose out on the bonus then it hurts you quite a bit in terms of efficiency, and if you lose out on it to someone who's already making your solves slower just by being there that's like adding insult to injury.

Templars could have a buff (Battle Wisdom?) when they kill a grolm/garg inside a pentagram quest area. Each kill would add around 5% to a value held in this buff (pretty sure they are handled like items), up to a max of 50%~100%. When templars activate the next pent while possessing this buff, 15% to 20% of it is used in increasing the pentagram's value by said amount. The buff would last 3 to 5 minutes and be refreshed every time an enemy is slain. A message could be added when killing while having this buff indicating how much % it's currently holding. This way templars could get more exp from pents by actively slaying enemies, encouraging their more battle-oriented gameplay.
I'm not very experienced with each race's penting style so this could also be added to other battle-oriented classes.

This would have to be implemented amongst other suggestions here to balance things out, especially when it comes to how quickly players activate pents. Maybe templar players penting add less to the solve requirement.

Perhaps have an usable item that does this for those who intend to pent slaying stuff? Cheaper for templars of course

Botar wrote:

Rizpah wrote:While it is a good suggestion Botar, you'd have to reduce the amount per pent by quite a bit to make it even remotely fair. Nominally I can grab about 3 times as many pents as say a templar, while that change would be good for me, especially with no change to the amounts involved, the templar would not see an increase.

I'm still for removing the exp bonus but increasing the amount per pent as suggested by Lazy.

I don't think whether or not it's going to help templars should be a consideration, I don't think that there's any pent change that is going to benefit templars in their current situation and fixing them is an entirely different concern.

I also don't think reducing the experience per pent because some people are able to get so many of them is really a good idea either, you should be rewarded for being speedy and not punished for it.

The only downside to my idea, as I see it, is that it would make experience gain higher in general but with rebirth out now I don't see people ranking up faster as a bad thing.

I would also argue against giving everyone the bonus, because then it isn't a bonus anymore. I would also argue against removing the bonus, just for the simple reason that solving and getting a bonus adds a little bit of fun in my opinion. The problem with the bonus currently is that it's responsible for too large of a portion of the experience gained from penting. If you lose out on the bonus then it hurts you quite a bit in terms of efficiency, and if you lose out on it to someone who's already making your solves slower just by being there that's like adding insult to injury.

Remove solve exp bonus and just allow players to get exp for all activated pents. Will people rank faster? Yes! Is that a problem? No! We want rebirth to be accessible. We need better exp gains for that to happen. We have more ways to improve/progress now lets take advantage.

Botar wrote:

Rizpah wrote:While it is a good suggestion Botar, you'd have to reduce the amount per pent by quite a bit to make it even remotely fair. Nominally I can grab about 3 times as many pents as say a templar, while that change would be good for me, especially with no change to the amounts involved, the templar would not see an increase.

I'm still for removing the exp bonus but increasing the amount per pent as suggested by Lazy.

I don't think whether or not it's going to help templars should be a consideration, I don't think that there's any pent change that is going to benefit templars in their current situation and fixing them is an entirely different concern.

I also don't think reducing the experience per pent because some people are able to get so many of them is really a good idea either, you should be rewarded for being speedy and not punished for it.

The only downside to my idea, as I see it, is that it would make experience gain higher in general but with rebirth out now I don't see people ranking up faster as a bad thing.

I would also argue against giving everyone the bonus, because then it isn't a bonus anymore. I would also argue against removing the bonus, just for the simple reason that solving and getting a bonus adds a little bit of fun in my opinion. The problem with the bonus currently is that it's responsible for too large of a portion of the experience gained from penting. If you lose out on the bonus then it hurts you quite a bit in terms of efficiency, and if you lose out on it to someone who's already making your solves slower just by being there that's like adding insult to injury.

Every race should be considered when making a change like this, and if it does not benefit every race it should not be done. I'd rather see a change that only benefited Templars in the pents rather than them being left out because we all know they could use the help.

Rizpah wrote:

Botar wrote:

Rizpah wrote:While it is a good suggestion Botar, you'd have to reduce the amount per pent by quite a bit to make it even remotely fair. Nominally I can grab about 3 times as many pents as say a templar, while that change would be good for me, especially with no change to the amounts involved, the templar would not see an increase.

I'm still for removing the exp bonus but increasing the amount per pent as suggested by Lazy.

I don't think whether or not it's going to help templars should be a consideration, I don't think that there's any pent change that is going to benefit templars in their current situation and fixing them is an entirely different concern.

I also don't think reducing the experience per pent because some people are able to get so many of them is really a good idea either, you should be rewarded for being speedy and not punished for it.

The only downside to my idea, as I see it, is that it would make experience gain higher in general but with rebirth out now I don't see people ranking up faster as a bad thing.

I would also argue against giving everyone the bonus, because then it isn't a bonus anymore. I would also argue against removing the bonus, just for the simple reason that solving and getting a bonus adds a little bit of fun in my opinion. The problem with the bonus currently is that it's responsible for too large of a portion of the experience gained from penting. If you lose out on the bonus then it hurts you quite a bit in terms of efficiency, and if you lose out on it to someone who's already making your solves slower just by being there that's like adding insult to injury.

Every race should be considered when making a change like this, and if it does not benefit every race it should not be done. I'd rather see a change that only benefited Templars in the pents rather than them being left out because we all know they could use the help.

It would be better to not confuse the issues.

The issue being discussed here is the fact that pents get worse when more people enter.

Everyone agrees templars need fixing, but multiple people penting at the same time isn't what is wrong with them. No change you make to the pentagram quest is going to fix the fact that they kill so slow that they can't rank up.

Templars would actually benefit from it regardless. Penting lower allows them to kill fast, kill faster means more pents, more pents more exp. Templars cannot pent UW competitively. But the issue isnt class balance. That is another discussion. You cannot say no to an idea because one class will benefit less from it. The solution is implement feature and fix the individual class issue later.

Botar wrote:It would be better to not confuse the issues.

The issue being discussed here is the fact that pents get worse when more people enter.

Everyone agrees templars need fixing, but multiple people penting at the same time isn't what is wrong with them. No change you make to the pentagram quest is going to fix the fact that they kill so slow that they can't rank up.

I'm not confusing anything. I was stating that no change is better than one that does not benefit every race.

Asmodeus wrote:Templars would actually benefit from it regardless. Penting lower allows them to kill fast, kill faster means more pents, more pents more exp. Templars cannot pent UW competitively. But the issue isnt class balance. That is another discussion. You cannot say no to an idea because one class will benefit less from it. The solution is implement feature and fix the individual class issue later.

Penting lower only means touching more pents for the same amount of experience.

Do you think that companies such as Blizzard or SqEx make new content or significant changes without testing and fixing any issues before they release it? No, they don't. Granted those companies are a whole different sort of beast.

Asmodeus' solve bonus idea was a good one as was Lazy's. Not having to worry about which pent I touch to solve to get the highest amount would be nice.

Trying a different idea, you could remove the bonus exp entirely and instead add in say a short duration, maybe 5 minutes, buff, such as a gmoon, after a solve for those only in pents.

Rizpah wrote:

Botar wrote:It would be better to not confuse the issues.

The issue being discussed here is the fact that pents get worse when more people enter.

Everyone agrees templars need fixing, but multiple people penting at the same time isn't what is wrong with them. No change you make to the pentagram quest is going to fix the fact that they kill so slow that they can't rank up.

I'm not confusing anything. I was stating that no change is better than one that does not benefit every race.

Asmodeus wrote:Templars would actually benefit from it regardless. Penting lower allows them to kill fast, kill faster means more pents, more pents more exp. Templars cannot pent UW competitively. But the issue isnt class balance. That is another discussion. You cannot say no to an idea because one class will benefit less from it. The solution is implement feature and fix the individual class issue later.

Penting lower only means touching more pents for the same amount of experience.

Do you think that companies such as Blizzard or SqEx make new content or significant changes without testing and fixing any issues before they release it? No, they don't. Granted those companies are a whole different sort of beast.

Asmodeus' solve bonus idea was a good one as was Lazy's. Not having to worry about which pent I touch to solve to get the highest amount would be nice.

Trying a different idea, you could remove the bonus exp entirely and instead add in say a short duration buff say maybe 5 minutes, buff such as a gmoon for those only in pents.

That buff would not affect ATs so shouldn't be implemented.

In all seriousness, I really believe that we have a chance to make this population boom stick with some basic quality of life changes.

People have always refrained from penting because if you are not solo, you are not getting any good exp. All in all it means that some people who login to rank, will get discouraged when they see 1-2 people in pents or even worse a god damn templar. What happens then? They log off, play something else. Do you realize the significance of this behaviour? Some one is so turned off by the feature that instead of staying and doing something else, they fkn log off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't that telling you something? I am mindful that only one coder can work on this feature at this moment and that this is a spare time for the love of the game service.

So a feature like giving everyone solve bonus might be easier than removing solve bonus and raising exp on all pents.

Rizpah wrote:

Botar wrote:It would be better to not confuse the issues.

The issue being discussed here is the fact that pents get worse when more people enter.

Everyone agrees templars need fixing, but multiple people penting at the same time isn't what is wrong with them. No change you make to the pentagram quest is going to fix the fact that they kill so slow that they can't rank up.

I'm not confusing anything. I was stating that no change is better than one that does not benefit every race.

Asmodeus wrote:Templars would actually benefit from it regardless. Penting lower allows them to kill fast, kill faster means more pents, more pents more exp. Templars cannot pent UW competitively. But the issue isnt class balance. That is another discussion. You cannot say no to an idea because one class will benefit less from it. The solution is implement feature and fix the individual class issue later.

Penting lower only means touching more pents for the same amount of experience.

Do you think that companies such as Blizzard or SqEx make new content or significant changes without testing and fixing any issues before they release it? No, they don't. Granted those companies are a whole different sort of beast.

Asmodeus' solve bonus idea was a good one as was Lazy's. Not having to worry about which pent I touch to solve to get the highest amount would be nice.

Trying a different idea, you could remove the bonus exp entirely and instead add in say a short duration, maybe 5 minutes, buff, such as a gmoon, after a solve for those only in pents.

Any change that makes pents more suitable for more people in them at the same time is going to benefit every race.

Why bring up billion dollar companies with a ridiculous amount of developmental resources? Why bring up templar imbalance in a conversation about making pents more friendly to multiple users? Obfuscating the point doesn't really help anyone, and neither do unclear statements like "Every race should be considered when making a change like this, and if it does not benefit every race it should not be done. I'd rather see a change that only benefited Templars in the pents rather than them being left out because we all know they could use the help." Every race should be considered, and every race should benefit, but a change that only benefits templars is better than one that benefits everyone but templars? Makes sense, I guess. Sort of. Well, not really.

Not many people play templar now, a change that only benefits templars isn't going to make the game better for most people. Fix pents. Fix templars in a seperate way, and the fix to pents will benefit them too. Fix pents in a way that only benefits templars and they'll still be awful to play, other people will continue to enjoy pents less, and all that will be accomplished is more wasted development time.

No plans in the short term to touch the pents.

Would you consider it if someone else wrote the code?

Jaigur wrote:Would you consider it if someone else wrote the code?

Please say yes